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End Arms Dealing and Mayhem and Accept Those Who Need Sanctuary

September 25, 2015

Pope Francis Urges U.S. Congress to End Arms Trade & Open Doors to Immigrants


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Pope Francis has arrived in New York, where he will speak at the United Nations General Assembly. On Thursday he became the first pope ever to address a joint session of Congress. He urged nations to adopt the Golden Rule when it came to dealing with refugees, and used the opportunity to call for an end to the international arms trade. “Why are deadly weapons being sold to those who plan to inflict untold suffering on individuals and society?” Pope Francis asked. “Sadly, the answer, as we all know, is simply for money—money that is drenched in blood, often innocent blood. In the face of this shameful and culpable silence, it is our duty to confront the problem and to stop the arms trade.” After the congressional address, Pope Francis skipped an offer to dine with lawmakers in order to eat with homeless residents of Washington, D.C. “We can find no social or moral justification, no justification whatsoever, for lack of housing,” Pope Francis said. We speak to Sister Simone Campbell, executive director of NETWORK and leader of the Nuns on the Bus project.



This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Pope Francis has arrived in New York, where he will speak today at the United Nations General Assembly. On Thursday, he became the first pope ever to address a joint session of Congress. He used the opportunity to call for an end to the international arms trade, a trade dominated by the United States.

POPE FRANCIS: Why are deadly weapons being sold to those who plan to inflict untold suffering on individuals and society? Sadly, the answer, as we all know, is simply for money—money that is drenched in blood, often innocent blood. In the face of this shameful and culpable silence, it is our duty to confront the problem and to stop the arms trade.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Pope Francis also addressed the issue of refugees and immigrants in Europe and the Americas.

POPE FRANCIS: Our world is facing a refugee crisis of a magnitude not seen since the Second World War. This presents us with great challenges and many hard decisions. On this continent, too, thousands of persons are led to travel north in search of a better life for themselves and for their loved ones, in search of greater opportunity. Is this not what we want for our own children? We must not be taken aback by their numbers, but rather view them as persons, seeing their faces and listening to their stories, trying to respond as best we can to their situation, to respond in a way which is always humane, just and fraternal. We need to avoid a common temptation nowadays to discard whatever proves troublesome. Let us remember the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you—do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

AMY GOODMAN: Part of Pope Francis’s speech to Congress also focused on poverty and hunger.

POPE FRANCIS: I would encourage you to keep in mind all those people around us who are trapped in a cycle of poverty. They, too, need to be given hope. The fight against poverty and hunger must be fought constantly and on many fronts, especially in its causes. I know that many Americans today, as in the past, are working to deal with this problem.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: After the congressional address, Pope Francis skipped an offer to dine with lawmakers in order to eat with homeless residents of Washington, D.C. Before the lunch, the pope made a few brief remarks in Spanish at St. Patrick’s Church.

POPE FRANCIS: [translated] I want to be very clear: We can find no social or moral justification, no justification whatsoever, for the lack of housing. There are many unjust situations, but we know that God is suffering with us, experiencing them on our side. He does not abandon us.

AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about the pope’s visit to the United States, we’re joined by Sister Simone Campbell. She’s executive director of NETWORK, a Catholic social justice organization. She attended the pope’s speech before Congress and at the White House. She’s the author of A Nun on the Bus: How All of Us Can Create Hope, Change, and Community.

We’ll also be joined by Kumi Naidoo, executive director of Greenpeace International, as well as Robert Ellsberg, editor and publisher of Orbis Books, the American imprint of the Maryknoll order. He edited and published selected writings by Dorothy Day, as well as her diaries and letters, and has published books on Thomas Merton. The pope spoke both about Thomas Merton and Dorothy Day in his congressional address.

Sister Campbell, welcome to Democracy Now! Let’s begin with you. Just start off by talking about what the day was like yesterday. Where were you seated? What was it like in this first-ever address before Congress by a pope?

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Well, I had the deep honor of being in the front row of the gallery on the Republican side. As you face the pope, it was on the right side. And we got seated in some kind of seniority way by who gave us our tickets, and so since I had Senator Barbara Boxer’s ticket, I had a front row seat. It was a lot of expectation, but one of the things that I really noticed was—of course, we got there early, we had to be seated early, go through security, find our way—but what I noticed was the eagerness of all of the participants to be community in our little area. And it ended up that I was seated almost exactly next to Cindy McCain, Senator McCain’s wife. And we had a lovely conversation about Senator McCain’s efforts on immigration reform. We talked policy. But mostly we talked about what joy and hope Pope Francis was bringing, that we could bridge—maybe bridge—some of these huge divides in our country, and be realistic about the needs that we’re facing. He brings a candor that I think was contagious.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Sister Simone, I was struck by his very strong words on the arms trade, which to me seemed to be the most surprising of all the issues that he touched on.

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Well, I was, too, and that he called it out in such a clear fashion. But I think, though, for me, the one that was even more surprising was the way that he did the codewords for what usually conservatives think of as the abortion language—you know, protecting the dignity of all life. And it was very—it was kind of dear that the Republicans, who had been a little slow to stand up and applaud some things, they jumped to their feet and applauded, and then the Democrats were a little slow. But then he immediately went to the death penalty. And I really think these two issues are connected: Do we deal death, or are we really respecters of life? And it was in that context he was talking both arms trade and death penalty, and the dignity of all of life that we need to be respectful of.

AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to the pope speaking for the global abolition of the death penalty.

POPE FRANCIS: The Golden Rule also reminds us of our responsibility to protect and defend human life at every stage of its development. This conviction has led me, from the beginning of my ministry, to advocate at different levels the global abolition of the death penalty. And I am convinced that this way is the best, since every life is sacred, every human person is endowed with an inalienable dignity, and society can only benefit from the rehabilitation of those convicted of crimes.

AMY GOODMAN: That is the pope addressing, in the first-ever address to Congress by a pope, the issue of the death penalty. He called for its global abolition. The significance of this, Sister Simone Campbell, as thousands of people sit on death row in the United States, over 3,000? One, Richard Glossip, has an execution date in the next few days, set once again.

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Oh, it was hugely important. He also, just after that part, also said that I believe that the bishops were going to be greater advocates on this issue. That, I think, is key, that we have—just because he says it once doesn’t mean that it’s accomplished. And he’s keenly aware of the fact that we need to really stand up for all people. He also mentioned that we cannot ever give up hope for any one person, and that hope and the possibility of rehabilitation is always at the heart of our care for each other. So I think that his focus, his really lifting this issue to such a prominence, can help us move away from what’s really a medieval response to and a fearful response to crime. And too often, especially in the case of Mr. Glossip that we’re hearing, that this is—you know, he’s erroneously convicted. And I think that sort of horror alone should be enough, much less the dignity of everybody who may have committed these crimes. But how do we—how do—I think what he’s saying is that it diminishes our dignity to kill someone else, and especially when the state does it in our name. Then who are we? Who are we as a nation? And he was trying to lay that out clearly to call us to be our better selves.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Sister Simone, what are some of the issues that you perhaps had hoped the pope would address in this presentation, in this address to Congress?

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Oh, that he hadn’t addressed? It was a little hard to think of something. I mean, immigration and economic justice are the two big issues that we work on in our organization, and he really clearly addressed both. I guess if there was anything that would have been—I’d like a little more specificity about would have been the huge economic divide in our nation. I mean, he spoke about it generally in the global context, but that it’s so keenly felt in the United States, that—and I’ve met so many people who struggle so hard at the margins, I just would wish maybe that their stories had influenced him a little bit more to speak more specifically of the U.S. But on the whole, I mean, it’s really hard to complain. That was an amazing speech.

AMY GOODMAN: Very quickly, Sister Simone, before we wrap up, in 2012 the Vatican reprimanded the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, the largest group of Catholic nuns in the United States, accusing them of promoting “radical feminist themes” and challenging church teachings on homosexuality and male-only priesthood. Your group,NETWORK, also came under investigation. What has come of these investigations? Actually, yesterday we spoke with one woman priest who was arrested in civil disobedience [Wednesday] in Washington, D.C., calling for women to be ordained. But what has happened in both cases?

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Well, in those cases, that—we’ve all made nice. Pope Francis said, “End it.” And so, the censure was ended two years early. Everybody said they learned from dialogue. Our organization actually has never heard from the Vatican, either before or after, but I’m assuming that it’s wrapped up with Pope Francis, because the work that we do is totally in keeping with what Pope Francis does. But I have to say that if it hadn’t been for the censure, we would have never had our program, Nuns on the Bus. We would have never had our focus on poverty lifted up in our nation. And I think we really got a chance to help shape our national dialogue and refocus on the issue of those who struggle. So, while it was extremely painful, while I think it’s over and we’ve all made nice, and Pope Francis said that he loves the nuns, it also was a gift that got used for some good work in our nation. May we be able to continue.

AMY GOODMAN: And Nuns on the Bus are? Nuns on the Bus, explain that project.

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Oh, I’m sorry. Nuns on the Bus are our campaign where we go around the country lifting up the stories of real people who struggle, and shining a light on the good things that are being done, and as well as the divides. And our latest trip just wound up just before Pope Francis came, and our theme was “Bridge the Divides, Transform Politics.” We’ve got to do it together.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to break and then come back to this discussion. Sister Simone Campbell, thanks so much, executive director of NETWORK, a Catholic social justice group, author of A Nun on the Bus: How All of Us Can Create Hope, Change, and Community. When we come back, Robert Ellsberg will be with us, talking about two of the four people that Pope Francis called out. He called out Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton. You’ll find out who they are. We’ll also be speaking with Kumi Naidoo, head of Greenpeace International. One of the biggest issues that the pope has taken on in these last months: climate change. Stay with us.


Daughter of Undocumented Parents Delivers Letter to Pope Francis

eanwhile, a video of a little girl delivering a letter to Pope Francis during his papal procession down Constitution Avenue in Washington, D.C., has gone viral. Five-year-old Sophie Cruz is a U.S.-born citizen whose parents are undocumented immigrants from Mexico. She slipped past the barricades Wednesday and delivered a written plea to the pope asking him to help keep her family together. She later read the letter to The Guardian.

Sophie Cruz: “I am an American citizen with Mexican roots. I live in Los Angeles, California, in the heart of agriculture. My parents are immigrants from Oaxaca, Mexico. Pope Francis, I want to tell you that my heart is sad, and I would like to ask you to speak with the president and the Congress in legalizing my parents, because every day I am scared that one day they will take them away from me.”

We’ll have more on Pope Francis’ historic six-day visit after headlines with the granddaughter of Catholic Worker founder Dorothy Day and Maryknoll publisher Robert Ellsberg.


Robert Ellsberg, editor and publisher of Orbis Books, the American imprint of the Maryknoll order. He edited and published selected writings by Dorothy Day, as well as her diaries and letters.

Martha Hennessy, volunteer at the Maryhouse Catholic Worker in New York. She is the granddaughter of Dorothy Day. She’s been fasting, praying and holding a vigil at the United Nations since Tuesday evening.

Janice Sevre-Duszynska, ordained priest with the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests. She has been excommunicated, along with all of the world’s roughly 150 other female priests, because she is a woman. She is one of the four women priests who were arrested for staging a die-in on Wednesday in Washington, D.C., to call for the pope to recognize the rights of women to be ordained.

A Look at the Life of One of Pope’s “4 Great Americans”: Catholic Worker Founder Dorothy Day


A testimony to the Denver Catholic Worker House and especially to you all who gave me shelter when I was drowning.

I once had the good fortune to live and work at the Catholic Worker House. I was the manager of the Catholic Worker Used Furniture Thrift Store  + at the Alpine Hotel on the first floor.  I unfortunately did not have the good sense to remain there the rest of my life. It was one of the few places when I was on the street that I had refuge from the storm without and within.  The Alpine Hotel is at the CORNERSTONE site at the edge of Park Avenue West and Curtis Street where it conjoin with Broadway and next to St. Francis Center.  I utilized all of the services of the block and it is where I was able to get my life back in 2000.  I nearly lost my brief life at the time I attempted to commit suicide at the advent of 9/11.  That was all when I was 50.  I had been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and was in trauma, having lost my family and friends from home in Philadelphia.  I came to Denver to be a chaplain.  I had been fighting with this disease since my inception on January 29, 1951.  

The Catholic Worker House gave me a chance to succeed and feel wanted and alive when I was struggling like a spawning salmon against the current on the doorstep of ultimate loss.  I had struggled since the near fatal accident of my daughter Leila, who I watched come into the world on September 3, 1979.  My life was lived with a mix of piss and vinegar and I never was able to regain my earlier relationships with loved ones.  I lost everything and now live on the edge on Colfax at Logan Studios in a single room.  I have had everything and lost all, coming to terms with what we are here for and why we are born.  We have no choice but ti live to our ultimate last breath with grace.  I will never arrive at home and I am clear that no matter it has been a good life if not a great struggle to survive.

No one in my family, no child, no grandchild, no kin, nor friend has ever been able to see these struggles and where they have taken me but I am alright with this. I realize that life is a banquet that we savor or regurgitate with remorse, if we choose.  Life is a gift for me especially.  I never envisioned being here for these many decades, more than half a century.  I never expected to see the end of childhood and to function as an adult since early on I struggled with being alone and sick with this illness.  I will ever be satisfied that I have had the best and offered my help wherever I was able to many who were lost and longing for safe and sure footing on a rough rocky shore.  THANK YOU SISTER Anna and Dorothy Day for your love and acceptance.  Bless you and even if you never saw me or felt me or understood my journey I am grateful for your presence always.

Text of Democracy  follows concerning the great legacy of the founder of the Catholic Worker House

During his speech before Congress today, Pope Francis highlighted the work of four “great” Americans: Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton. “In these times when social concerns are so important, I cannot fail to mention the Servant of God Dorothy Day, who founded the Catholic Worker Movement,” the pope said. “Her social activism, her passion for justice and for the cause of the oppressed, were inspired by the gospel, her faith and the example of the saints.” He went on to say, “A nation can be considered great when it defends liberty as Lincoln did, when it fosters a culture which enables people to “dream” of full rights for all their brothers and sisters, as Martin Luther King sought to do; when it strives for justice and the cause of the oppressed, as Dorothy Day did by her tireless work, the fruit of a faith which becomes dialogue and sows peace in the contemplative style of Thomas Merton.” We look at the life of Day, who was endorsed for canonization by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops in 2012. Day founded the Catholic Worker Movement with Peter Maurin. Thus began a life of voluntary poverty and radical politics. The Catholic Worker first began by setting up urban houses of hospitality and farm communes to feed and shelter the poor. The movement also advocated pacifism and opposition to the draft. We speak to her granddaughter, Martha Hennessy, and Robert Ellsberg, who has edited and published the writings of Dorothy Day.



This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Our guests, as we talk about the pope in this historic trip to the United States, his first trip ever, Argentinian-born Pope Francis, are Janice Sevre-Duszynska, who is one of four women priests who were arrested in a civil disobedience yesterday in Washington calling for the ordination of priests—she’s an ordained priest with the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests. We are also joined by Robert Ellsberg. Robert Ellsberg edited and published the selected writings by Dorothy Day, as well as her diaries and letters, editor of and publisher of Orbis Books, the American imprint of the Maryknoll order. And Martha Hennessy is with us. Martha Hennessy is the granddaughter of Dorothy Day, and she volunteers at Maryhouse Catholic Worker in New York. She’s been fasting and praying and holding a vigil at the United Nations since Tuesday evening.

We welcome you all to Democracy Now! There was a very controversial canonization yesterday. And I wanted Robert Ellsberg—if you could—we addressed this yesterday onDemocracy Now!, the whole process by which Junípero Serra has become a saint, and that happened yesterday, the first time ever this kind of ceremony happened on U.S. soil. But I wanted to turn to Dorothy Day, who is in the beginning of the process of sainthood. If you could talk about her significance?

ROBERT ELLSBERG: I think that the way to begin talking about Dorothy Day is to recognize that she herself spoke about the need for a different kind of saint in our time. She came from a—raised in New York and was very active in radical, social and political movements in the early part of the century, underwent a conversion in the 1920s to Catholicism, and then searched for some way to combine her commitment to social justice and the poor with her Catholic faith, at a time when most Catholics, at least by her radical friends, were regarded as kind of a bulwark of the status quo. She said that she—you know, where were the saints to change the social order, not just to bind up the victims of slavery, but to do away with slavery?

So, out of that, she founded a movement called the Catholic Worker, where Martha is affiliated and works now, which combined the works of mercy, living in community among the poor, in New York and other cities, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc., but combining that with a radical social criticism of our economic and social system, and also combining that with a strong commitment to the peace message of Jesus, for which she was repeatedly arrested during her life, and made her in some ways a very marginal figure in the Catholic Church in the ’50s and ’60s, but I think now has emerged more as a kind of radical conscience.

And I would see her as somebody who kind of paves the way for the vision that Pope Francis is delivering. And I think that her—the significance of her cause for canonization now is not just to honor her memory as an important American Catholic, but because she kind of helps to calibrate the mission of the church in our time, in the same way that Pope Francis is doing, to focus on the needs of the world and of the hungry and the wounded and the victims of war.

AMY GOODMAN: It’s so interesting she’s going through this process, having had an abortion herself and was a convert. I want to go to an excerpt from a documentary titledDorothy Day: Don’t Call Me a Saint, directed by Claudia Larson.

UNIDENTIFIED: Dorothy’s work arose from the fact that she sacrificed the love of her life. If she embraced the Catholic faith, he’d have nothing more to do with her.

UNIDENTIFIED: Dorothy Day had a radical analysis of the economics of society and what ought to be done about it.

UNIDENTIFIED: She was used to working to change the world, to make a difference.

UNIDENTIFIED: There was no separation between life of prayer and the ordinary activities of everyday life. And so there was a spiritual, contemplative dimension to all those things, as much as there was to picketing at the White House or sitting in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED: Nonviolence makes the world safe for conflict. You can have conflict, but you don’t go to the point of killing. And that was what Dorothy taught.

UNIDENTIFIED: She had an enormous ability to enter other people’s lives, to experience what they experienced, and to come out of it with a great longing that life shouldn’t be so hard for so many people.

DOROTHY DAY: If your brother is hungry, you feed him. You don’t meet him at the door and say, “Go, be thou filled.” You sit him down and feed him.

AMY GOODMAN: That last voice was Dorothy Day, and that’s from the documentary,Dorothy Day: Don’t Call Me a Saint, directed by Claudia Larson. Yet she is now, Robert Ellsberg, on the road to sainthood. And she was a layperson. Talk about the significance of this. And then, if you can talk about her way and the way of Pope Francis?

ROBERT ELLSBERG: Well, throughout the history of the church, the church has held out certain individuals who, in some heroic way, embodied the challenge of the gospel in their time. There are thousands of saints who have been canonized, added to the official list of saints, but the vast majority of them were amongst priests, bishops, members of religious orders. And that pretty much reflected and supported a kind of an idea that holiness is something set apart from the world, it’s for special people who live in a kind of a religious world—very few laypeople, except for some martyrs, like Thomas More, ordained—excuse me, canonized.

So, the significance of Dorothy Day, who was a laywoman—she was an unmarried mother and grandmother. She was the director of a lay community that asked for no authorization or permission from the hierarchy in order to carry out her mission, and who represented a kind of brand of social Catholicism that was far in advance of the kind of typical teaching in the church of her day, but which now is much closer to the mainstream of Catholic social teaching. I think it’s quite significant that someone like this, and the fact that she is a woman—there are also the vast majority of saints have been men. I think, as a woman, as a layperson, as somebody who experienced so many different dimensions of ordinary life and showed a way of living a heroic form of following Christ within the context of the challenges of her time—war, poverty, unemployment, social justice, racism, all of these things—and pointing in the direction of a different kind of style of community as reflecting the challenge of the gospel—I think that in all those ways she represents a paradigmatic and very significant kind of saint for our time.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Martha Hennessy, you’re fasting today, and you’ve been holding a vigil outside the United Nations. Could you talk about why it is that you’re fasting and what you hope the pope will say during his address at the U.N.?

MARTHA HENNESSY: Well, I think fasting and vigiling and praying is a long—we have a long tradition, as Catholics, in using those methods as a way of bringing down the Holy Spirit and to help have things move in the direction that they need to move in. And we’re hoping that Pope Francis is able to speak what he needs to say to the world leaders regarding the sustainable development issue that they are addressing at the U.N. We’re hoping that he very clearly spells out that the business of war is not the business of the people, and that we need to change our ways. We need to change our addictive, compulsive behaviors around issues of the use of fossil fuels, around the issues of violence that are so prevalent, the militarism, violence and racism that is in our society today. So I hope—we are there just to give him courage to say what needs to be said in this situation with the U.N.

AMY GOODMAN: Martha, you work at Maryhouse, at the Dorothy Day Catholic Worker hospitality house—


AMY GOODMAN: —in New York. For those who don’t know what these hospitality houses are that were set up long ago by Dorothy, can you explain?

MARTHA HENNESSY: It’s simply sharing yourself. It’s expanding the definition of family. You open a house of hospitality, you meet the immediate needs of those who are in dire straits. And she understood the Sermon on the Mount as something to be acted upon. It’s like a practical manifesto and document that shows you, simply answering the needs of people who are in such terrible conditions, especially in our cities—so, we simply do—I’m a mother, I’m a wife, I am also a grandmother. And what I do at Maryhouse is not a whole lot different than what I do in my own home. So I have an extended definition of family.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Janice Sevre-Duszynska, your first mass was at a Dorothy Day Catholic Worker house in Washington, D.C.?

JANICE SEVREDUSZYNSKA: Yes, and, in fact, I was staying there last night. Yes, it was at Dorothy Day. I was invited by Kathy Boylan, who I witnessed with in front of the—at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, all 300 of them, for six or seven years before I accepted ordination as a deacon on the boat in Pittsburgh, and then August 9th, 2008, the feast day of Franz Jägerstätter in Lexington, Kentucky.

AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Robert Ellsberg, as we witnessed this first-ever ceremony for sainthood on U.S. soil, but it was the controversial Junípero Serra, who indigenous people, many, have expressed their horror that he was being raised, elevated in this way, given what the—what happened in California with the indigenous people and the whole conversion process, can you end by talking about Óscar Romero and his path to beatification?

ROBERT ELLSBERG: Óscar Romero, the archbishop of San Salvador, was assassinated at the altar in 1980 by a right-wing death squad. And for many years, although he was acclaimed immediately as a martyr and a saint by the poor and the church in Latin America, there was hesitation and ambivalence about pursuing his path to canonization in the church, because there were conservatives who felt that that would embolden leftist and radical elements and be divisive. There was also this question of why—why did he die? Conservatives would say, “Well, he died because he mixed himself up in politics, speaking out against the military and the government, on the side of the poor. And if he hadn’t done that, he wouldn’t have gotten killed.”

AMY GOODMAN: And this, of course, was in El Salvador.

ROBERT ELLSBERG: In El Salvador in 1980 in the midst of—well, of an unraveling situation that turned into full-scale civil war. Many of Romero’s priests had been killed, four American church women the same year. And 1989, the whole Jesuit community of the University of El Salvador was also assassinated. So there were many other martyrs during that period.

What was significant was for the Vatican and Pope Francis finally to recognize that Romero was a martyr—that is, that he had died by—in hatred, what they call hatred of the faith, not because he got mixed up in politics, but that his witness was itself an expression of the gospel, and the people who killed him, they may have called themselves Catholics, they may have believed that they were defending Christendom, but they were enemies of the gospel, and that’s why he died.

So, there are always political aspects to canonization. You’ve referred to that in the controversies around Junípero Serra, very unpopular with Native Americans, very popular with U.S. Hispanics, including the Mexican-born archbishop of Los Angeles, who has been promoting that cause. So, there are kind of competing interpretations. The same thing, of course, would happen with Dorothy Day. She could be simply held up as a holy woman who served the poor, without regard for the kind of radical, prophetic social critique that she brought. I think it’s more likely, in this kind of era of Pope Francis, that that full picture will be honored and recognized, because it speaks so much to the needs of our time.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you all for being with us. Of course, this conversation will continue through the week. Robert Ellsberg edited and published selected writings by Dorothy Day, as well as her diaries and letters. He’s the editor and publisher of Orbis Books, the American imprint of the Maryknoll order. And thank you so much to Martha Hennessy, volunteers at Maryhouse Catholic Worker in New York, has been fasting as the pope comes to New York. She is the granddaughter of Dorothy Day. Robert Ellsberg, by the way, the son of Dan Ellsberg. And Janice Sevre-Duszynska, an ordained priest with the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests, one of four women priests, and seven people overall, who were arrested yesterday, as the pope was in Washington, calling for the ordination of women.

This is Democracy Now! As the pope talked about immigration, poverty, war and climate change, we’re going to talk about climate change in this next segment—an exposé by the Pulitzer Prize-winning InsideClimate News about what Exxon knew about climate change and when they knew it. Stay with us.

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